Darren is a psychotherapist in Belfast, Ireland and has a Youtube channel. I have enjoyed learning from him in relation to men who are survivors of narcissists. If you are a male reading this, I would also look up Borderline Personality Disorder. I have found that some of the male’s I have been working with are actually dealing with this type of personality disorder, where narcissism is a symptom but better served under this umbrella.
Movies are my favorite tool for helping a client to understand what I am talking about. All of the films below show a relationship with a NPD, in different ways. Some of the films below are shown in the Marquee above.
Reading what women (or men’s voices for men) have had to say through a biographer or from their own words of wisdom can be very empowering when you are going through your own healing process. Whether you are a victim – still in the home, or a survivor – out and trying to get your life back, a woman’s voice can be very strong, very educational, and very relatable. It doesn’t matter who you choose, let your intuitive powers guide you to this choice and then be prepared to sit back and indulge yourself in another woman’s experience.
You can find more of my videos on Youtube Make sure to Subscribe when you get there so you can be notified of when I make a new video. It is not often, so it won’t be a daily memo.
There are so many articles about Narcissism on the internet. It is easy to lump someone into a category when “narcissistic traits” may seem to be prevalent in many other diagnoses. This is the reason why it is inappropriate to diagnose someone who is not in the room. Often times, I will hear people talking about their partner and I realize they may have TBI or PTSD. They may also have Depression or some other mental health condition. Addicts DO seem to be narcissistic but this is because they are putting the addiction before the family, job or partner. Below are some things to be aware of. No one should diagnose anyone unless they are a psychological professional and they are in the room with this person. Even then, we don’t necessarily tell the person, unless we are going to do treatment on them or they seem open to listening.
Narcissistic traits vs. personality disorder – As mentioned above, the traits can be seen in a myriad of diagnoses and so it might not be the personality disorder. We are all egotistical and so there are times when we can seem like narcissists to others.
Another personality disorder. In my practicum, I worked with a woman who had Histrionic Personality Disorder. Now, I can recall her narcissistic traits, but it was way more drama. The men who have begun to see me for a Narcissistic partner, generally seem to be Borderline. Anti-Social Personality Disorder is really what is going on in the movie “Gaslight.”
I have had people tell me that a mentally ill person was a “narcissist” or that the addict was a “narcissist,” for example. Those traits will surface from these types of other diagnoses. Which comes first though? What will they be like on medication or clean and sober? This is something that we can’t answer until it happens. I try to empathize with the mentally ill person – who is not in treatment – when explaining to my clients or to people in general. With an addict, I will say “Oh, they are an addict. And the fix is their priority, not you or anyone else, which makes them seem like a narcissist.” Mentally ill people often feel bad about the strain caused on their families by their illness.
Is the man/woman angry due to undisclosed sexual abuse or because of a traumatic brain injury or PTSD? I try to dig deep when I hear a man come into my office who says he was told he was a narcissist. Women aren’t generally told this for some reason. If we find out what is really going on, then we can treat the problem and find a solution. If a man is coming into my office and addressing his own narcissism by taking responsibility for this, that is usually a good sign. I would like to say that most likely they are not as the narcissist does not take responsibility. It is always everyone else’s fault.
Women will often ask “Am I a Narcissist,” thinking it is genetic or maybe it wasn’t my mom or maybe it wasn’t my husband/boyfriend, maybe it was me. There is a study that I have read but I am not convinced yet, I have seen it re-enacted but not inherited.
There are walls put up by the person with PTSD. I specialize in this, and I prepare for the defensiveness when they have it (not always), sometimes they can be quite angry. I never take it personally; they aren’t angry at me or at us as psychotherapists. Their behaviors sometimes can be narcissistic because they are protecting themselves from assumed tragedy, crisis, pending danger. They are angry at all men or all women. They are angry at the perpetrator and their ego shows us a very cocky, know it all, in charge, protector – or a very strong person who is trying to be in control of the world around them. They know this. The narcissist is not aware that they are doing these behaviors, some are conscious though and this is a whole other level.
The narcissist is not aware of their behaviors and how it impacts others. The parent is not concerned about how their children will turn out as adults and how it correlates to the way they raised them. They will talk about their children’s outcomes and will approve or disapprove but do not correlate with themselves and their spouse. They are “bad children”, “they became drug addicts,” “they are a horrible parent,” “they live in the basement because they can’t make it on their own.” I have heard a parent say, “I don’t want them to leave, because I don’t want to be alone.” That is, at least, some acknowledgement of responsibility.
In conclusion, don’t assume the person is a narcissist. If the articles you are reading online, make sense, talk to a therapist to discuss this further. The most important thing is not their diagnosis but how you are handling this relationship, yourself, and what steps should you take to heal and move on in your life. Take a look at my workshop on the “Survivors” page above, which can be found on Udemy.
What is PTSD? Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder is a diagnosis in the DSM-5 that is not biological. You are not born with this, nor is it genetic. It happens to someone post-trauma as the diagnosis states. Many people believe they have this and sometimes this is correct. The U.S. Department of Veteran Affairs National Center for PTSD states that 7-8% of the population will have PTSD in their lives. Sixty percent of men and fifty percent of women will experience at least one trauma in their lives, they continue to state. To further clarify in regard to veterans: since Vietnam, between 11-15% of veterans have been diagnosed with PTSD (also stated on the website of the U.S. Department of Veteran Affairs National Center for PTSD).
Men did not want to be women until around the pandemic. People were isolated and went stir crazy boarded up in their homes around the world. Until then, men didn’t really care too much to be women. Trans thinking was a small minority of people and let’s look at the reasons why – in my opinion.
Women didn’t have the right to vote until 1920 and minority groups of women didn’t have the right to vote until much later. Asian women 1952, Native American women 1962, Black women 1965, for Latinas, there are three dates: 1929 for literate women, 1935 for Puerto Ricans and then 1975 prohibiting discrimination against non-English speaking people. Before 1920, men could vote without a problem.
Women could not compete in the Olympics until 1920 and this was a special “Women’s Olympics.” Until 1972 with Title IX, you did not see women’s sports teams in schools and universities. Before this, men WERE sports.
Women being allowed to work. Well, prostitution is the oldest profession known to women, but when it comes to legal paid professions, there was factory work – for poor people and women were not looked at too favorably if they had to do this. You could be a nanny or servant in a home. Then you were allowed to work as a Rosie in WWII. A couple of women worked as de-coders during the war, but this was an exception to the rule (they were pretty damn good!). Until the 60’s, you really didn’t see women having careers – as a rule. And, guess what, women didn’t get paid equally to men.
Girls Scouts of America, was brought here by Juliette Lowe, who knew the Baden-Powell’s in England that founded the original boys and girls guide groups there. The Girl Scouts were founded here, specifically like in England, to help poor girls gather practical skills to survive in the world. Men already knew these skills, as they learned these things growing up.
Daughters of the American Revolution was founded one year after the Sons of the American Revolution, by four women and this WAS a genealogical group whereby women had to prove (as did the men) that they were descendants of someone involved in the American Revolution (soldier, activist, etc…). As a previous member (before they began allowing men) and an adopted female, I had to prove my heritage by finding my original birth certificate before I was adopted. Luckily, Ohio allows this. Now, men can hand over fake birth certificates where the state now “legally” declares them a woman. Not the original birth certificate, which would say they were a male. Adopted folks still need to prove their original birth heritage. The four women who founded this once prestigious organization are turning in their graves in shame.
Bathrooms and locker rooms. Well, if a man was caught in the bathroom or a locker room say at a ladies tennis court, their husbands would have beat the living daylights out of this person for even attempting to pretend to be a lady and peep in on their women. I am pretty sure this was not allowed at private country clubs either. We had respect for women at that time, even if we didn’t allow them to work or vote. Women were protected in some way shape or form.
Women owning homes. My very own home in Columbus Ohio was first purchased by a woman in 1928. She was not married yet. I am not sure when a woman could first own a home but I can definitely attest to the fact that it was not easy for a woman to do so. You could not even open a line of credit, as a woman, until 1971, so if you purchased a home, you had to pay cash. This might have come from family inheritances or a family loan. Men NEVER had a problem buying homes, opening lines of credit.
Going to college – there were a couple of colleges that allowed women to attend. Most notably here in Ohio, we had Oberlin and Antioch in the mid 1800’s. Yale and Princeton did not accept women until 1969 and Harvard it would not be until 1977. Men NEVER had a problem going to college prior to these years. If they had the money and for the ivy-league groups – the prestige – they went to college.
Women’s prisons were first established between the 1870’s-1900 in the U.S. Now, suddenly, men can say they are a “woman” and they get a free pass to sexually abuse and impregnate women in federal prisons. The first male to female surgery – paid for by the prison system was in 2022. Now, finally, President Trump is trying to get this abolished. Trans people have “concerns” about their safety in men’s prisons. When was it “safe” to be in prison?
Convents – there is already a man trying to insert himself into a nunnery in England. He is trying to establish himself as a Carolinian “sister.” Luckily, the nuns in this organization are saying they are unable to “accommodate a transgender nun.” Can you imagine? The sacredness of this woman’s organization, taking vows of chastity and suddenly a dick walks in the shower?
Men who want to be women need to have their own trans groups. Women have established themselves in women’s groups to have a safe space to be women, to talk, to share psychological and emotional space with one another. It is a sacred place to discuss violence in the home but also a place to discuss family matters; rearing children, dealing with husbands, taking care of the home, and financial support. A woman’s group is not a place for men, any more than I would want to invade a private men’s group such as the mason’s or a men’s athletic club. The privacy of women’s groups are no different than the privacy of Hungarian Cultural Associations (for Hungarians) or other ethnic groups. It is no different than African-Americans not wanting white people to join their group. It is why an Indian woman once asked me in an Indian store in California “What are you doing here?” It was sacred to her and I was not offended because I realized this suddenly. The same stares have occurred in La Michoacana stores as well. We have to accept that these places are for their (our) safety, their community, and their cultural sanity. Of course me visiting a retail store is hardly the same as invading a woman’s bathroom, sports team or prison.
To get a better perspective, take a look a this timeline of women’s legal rights in the U.S. and keep in mind that it depended on which state you lived in. There is no “timeline of men’s legal rights” in the U.S. except for minorities and foreigners. This is the reason why I have no sympathy for men who want to be women and take over our rights and spaces that we have worked very hard to gain. It is why I have no sympathy for liberal women “feminists,” who have become hypocrites. Why I left the Daughters of the American Revolution (last month) who shamelessly turned the organization upside down in 2022 (unbeknownst to me as this is when I as admitted). As a woman who has been reading and writing about women’s history for her entire life, I am not about to abandon my ancestors ever. Part of who I am is a woman with integrity. Men who choose to dress like women have no integrity or self-respect. They have no respect for women. This is a new way of being a misogynist and raping women worldwide.
As we celebrate WOMEN’s History month, we are not celebrating men who want to be women. That is a choice. Arguably they believe their mental health depends on this. However, a good therapist could help support them in this battle. Real women do not have a choice in the matter and we did not have choices in history and still battle with men taking advantage of us worldwide. Women are still forced into human trafficking – more than men. They are still forced into female genital mutilation in Muslim groups. They are still forced into marriage as children in third world countries. Every 9 seconds in the U.S. a woman is assualted or beaten. Not a man, not a man wanting to be a woman – A WOMAN.
Please bare this in mind when you are thinking about women’s history month during the month of March and in every single month thereafter. Women’s rights are sacred to women. Real biological women. XX
I love this video as it is important to look at both men and women who are abusers and victims who are both men and women.
In the past year, I have had many men come to see me who are, or have been in relationships with either Narcissists or Borderline women. I am so proud of them for being brave enough to come in and break the stigma that only women are being abused in the world. Emotional Abuse and Financial Abuse are some of the two top behaviors I see with women who are the Narcissists (or Borderlines). I am also beginning to learn about serial affairs from some of these women. There is trauma that occurs to a partner when an affair occurs, whether one or multiple. And, just as a side note, I see trauma to children when either mother or father cheats. It is not PTSD, but it is a type of trauma.
Then, I am seeing men who are either in short term situations with the narcissists or long term. The short term, no shock, is generally with an Instagram influencer type – several men have told me about these quick relationships. The short term Instagram Influencer is more about taking money from the guy, is very shallow, using emotional manipulation to get what they want. This impacts the male ego a little differently than a long term relationship or marriage with a narcissist. With the short term, there will be a discard and she will go on to the next guy. It is a game of chasing or cat/mouse until someone gets bored or the victim begins to have self-realization.
When you are living with and being berated day in and day out by the love of your life, it is going to have long term consequences to the psyche. Having racing thoughts, low feelings of self-worth, no sense of self, blaming, feelings of hopelessness. These are all ways to bring the man down over many years of living with this person. It is not much different than with a female who is being abused.
The serial cheating is taking advantage of the marriage, the male partner; destroying their sexual sense of self. Not to mention putting the partner at risk for STDs, and don’t forget, the woman can get pregnant. It is one thing when the male narcissist is making another woman pregnant and she lives somewhere else. Another when the female narcissist gets pregnant and is living with their victim and bringing another man’s child into the mix. Both are not good family values and destroy trust and the sacredness of the vows that were spoken.
I wanted to shed light on this, as I begin to explore this topic further in my practice. It bears mentioning to give these men a voice and begin to look at the differences and similarities in what I am starting to see between narcissistic women and narcissistic men.
If you would like to be a part of a research study I am conducting on narcissistic abuse survivors, please email me at transformpsych @ outlook.com (spaces created to prevent spam, so don’t use them). I can send you the questionnaire and you can email back after filling out online. Thank you!
Yes, there are male survivors of narcissistic women and I am beginning to see them come to my office more and more these days. While the DSM -5 states that 50-75% of narcissists are men, that leaves those 25-50% who are women. And, think of the books written to address daughters of Narcissistic Mothers – they had to have fathers too.
A Frequent Blog of Devotionals Inspired by A Course in Miracles, A Course of Love, The Way of Mastery, Choose Only Love--Plus More . . . with Celia Hales - https://www.amazon.com/author/celiahales
Jeannine Vegh 